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Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:01 pm
by Shardless

Some friends and I intend on streaming via twitch a game that is very little known, yet extremely popular at the same time.

Sword&Sorcery published 13 books, and 7 supplements for The World of Warcraft, and WarCraft video game series. The game closely follows Revised 3rd edition rule sets with some slight changes in spell function and other items.

The books and supplements are as follows:

    World of Warcraft Core Rulebook (Revised 3rd)
    WarCraft Core Rulebook (3rd)
    Alliance & Horde Compendium
    Alliance Player's Guide
    Dark Factions
    Horde Player's Guide
    Lands of Conflict
    Lands of Mystery
    Magic & Mayhem
    More Magic & Mayhem
    Even More Magic & Mayhem
    Manual of Monsters
    Monster Guide
    Shadows and Light
    Blue Dragonspawn (supplement)
    Bones Of Ironforge (supplement)
    Conversion Manual (supplement)
    Lands of Mystery Web Extras (supplement)
    Baloonist (supplement)
    Spell Sniper (supplement)
    Spell Breaker (supplement)

I have watched all of the Videos on the PCGen Website, as well as all those on Andrew Maitland's Youtube Channel. I am aware that books can me manually coded into PCGen using the .lst and .pcc files, I have looked at the documentation, and the lessons available there, but I have had some serious issues with understanding some things.

I will start by saying I have a novice understanding of coding in various languages. I don't know much but I understand how to use operators, and variables, as well as some degree of syntax. Where I am having a great deal of trouble though is the file structures and locations of various things. As well as, how Can I actually add a entirely new game into PCGen.

I have read and followed the videos and lessons regarding .pcc files and have created this so far.
Code: Select all
TYPE:WarCraft.wow_rules.First War
SOURCELONG:Sword & Sorcery - White Wolf Publshing, inc
COPYRIGHT:Blizzard Entertainment Copyright 2005
INFOTEXT:The No.1 fantasy roleplaying rules and the No.1 series of fantasy computer games join forces in World of Warcraft the Roleplaying Game. This series, a revision and expansion of the first edition Warcraft RPG, translates the hugely successful Warcraft RTS game series and World of Warcraft MMORPG into a pen-and-paper roleplaying game world based on the most popular rules for high fantasy gaming! Designed with extensive input from the creative minds behind the Warcraft computer games.

When I try to view the output in PCgen however, I go to select sources and my game does not appear. I do not know why. There are no errors in my logs.
The .pcc file is located at *\PCGen60601\data\Warcraft\Warcraft_test.pcc It is as if the file does not even try to load. I assume this is because I have created a new folder within Data to store it along with what I intend t be the entire game setting. Though my assumption could be way off base.

I also would like clarification of file structure and code structure. I spent all night last night watching the videos and assumed based on the way Andrew discussed it there would be a file structure containing the Ruleset .lst files in the top lvl or under a DIR named for them, followed by the individual books each in their own DIR with separate .lst files for individual components within the book such as *\PCGen60601\data\Warcraft\warcraft_rules.lst and *\PCGen60601\data\Warcraft\Alliance and horde Compendium\ally_horde_comp_races.lst Though when I look at the preloaded setting such as 3e, or 35e I don't see any real descernable structure to them. I see publishers and their content within those DIR but I do not see an overreacting set of .lst files.

Clearly I am missing something in the the DIR structures that is not apparent to me. Please help me with this.

What I am asking for in a nutshell is:(TLDR)
Where can I find files to use as a leaping off point for my new game?
How do I import that game into the source section of the software when I am complete (so that it appears separate from other entities, and is not associated with their functions or rulesets)?
What structure can I use that is intuitive, organized, and preferably top down for my .pcc and .lst files?
Anything else I haven't considered that a beginner must know in order to port a new game into PCGen?

I realize this is a lot of info and a bit to ask but I thank you in advance. I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask either so I will re-post to one other section within the forum and maybe the yahoo group. Though I have never used a yahoo anything much less a message group of theirs and it seems wonky to me, like everything yahoo produces, haha.


Help with Porting new game.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:02 pm
by Shardless
[Moderator: Nylanfs] Merged with this topic so answers are in one location.

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:29 am
by Nylanfs
What PCGen is looking for is a Game mode called "wow_rules" if you have not made a new gamemode called this it won't find it. And if I recall right you can make the Warcraft system work in the 35e setting.

Loo for a My_homebrew folder in the 35e data folder to use as a jumping off point.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:42 am
by Nylanfs
Also I would colaborate with to BahamutDragon since he already has a working core set for WoW in his own repo.

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:55 am
by Shardless
So if it is looking for a "wow_rules" that would be an .lst file, or another .pcc file? Does it matter where that file in located?

You can make the system work in 35e setting, but it still requires a vast amount of tweaks. Mana point for instance, as well as Hero, and Villian points, and some crazy class mechanics like Tinker, and the enchanter classes.

Thank you very much for pointing out this github I assume this person is a forum user? do they utilize the same name?

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:13 am
by Nylanfs
No the gamemode is the underlying game mechanics and I would STRONGLY suggest trying to do it under the an existing gamemode, tinkering with a whole game system is NOT for the faint of heart. Also it is very technical.

If I remember right most of those mechanics do not involve character creation at all, it's all handled at the game table, but it's been a while since I have dabbled with the WoW RPG setting. Creating new classes and such are fairly easy and you can post with questions if you get stuck.

Have you seen the section of the documentation called "PCC and List files explained"

All the files for a book will be in one directory, *.pcc and *.lst files and everything.

Edit: And he does post on the board, but not terribly often, I believe he posts as [url]bahamut920[/url]

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:42 am
by Shardless
I agree it seems like far too much of an undertaking, which is why I am trying to understand the file structures. I want to pick out all the mechanics of 35e without the spells, classes, skills, races, equipment, etc. Then change the little bit that needs to be changed and begin building the books from there. Effectively I want to copy the bare-bones of 35e and tweak them slightly to match Warcraft. So how can I turn a copy of 35e into wow-rules? The biggest reason for this is that I want my players to be completely unable to utilize 35e with the system. If you don't change a few things, or you allow items classes etc from 35e into warcraft it tends to break the game pretty badly since warcraft is so grossly overpowered.

I have not seen that article, I will read it.

I am confused about something though. In the articles I have read it refers to .pcc files as campaign files, but in the videos Andrew states that they are used for books as well. So which is it? Or is it both? How do you identify it within the code as simply a book or an entire campaign? I am assuming a campaign .pcc would call other .pcc files that refer to books, and those book .pcc files would call their respective .lst files? Am I correct in these assumptions?

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:18 am
by Shardless
So I read the document you have provided and it did clear up some things I have also made sense of the file structures I was confused about. I now see that the Gamemode files are in the system folder. I also read /PCGen/PCGen60601/system/my_gamemode/1_README_FIRST.txt which explained "The FOLDER NAME is what your gamemode will appear to display
in PCGen. That is the ONLY unique identifier for gamemodes."

I created a new folder and Named it wow_rules I then copied all the 35e files into it. I checked to make sure I got an exact copy of what was in the 35e. My intention is that now I can cross reference all the data in those files with the books and change anything necessary without augmenting the 35e files directly, keeping them intact for reference and future use.

The problem I have is that my .pcc file and my warcraft campaign setting is still not showing up in the sources within PCGen. I read the source help section in the documents and I am unable to find anything pertaining to creating and importing your own source. Just info on submitting it for dist and installing OOC source.
Edit: I did watch this video: in an attempt to utilize this method and create my own occ to try to import my gamemode into PCGen and it seem inaplicable since it is installing into the data, Vendor, or Homebrew directories.

Clearly I am missing something, do you have a link or a tutorial on this, or even a basic explanation of where I am going wrong. If there is a better way to accomplish what I need then please let me know. I am fine with whatever process as long as It separates my data from that of 35e, or otherwise prevents any races, classes, skills, equip, etc 35e from entering my game.

Edit: Just to clarify I am trying to get my WarCraft Campaign setting to show here: Image
or here:

I can see that the list contains all the same names as the Game modes folders that exist in the DIR except wow_rules here:

Also for reference here is the contents of *System/gameModes/wow_rules (As mentioned it was all just copy paste from 35e)

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:30 am
by LegacyKing

Sorry, been busy, but there is a lot of reinventing the wheel going on here... Usually if someone has done all the hard work, it's best to just grab that and then expand upon it. WoW does not require a separate gamemode. No variations require that level of change.

All your PCC file needs is what already exists, here is the pcc file as presented by Bahamut:

# CVS $Revision$ $Author$ -- Sun Dec 8 22:17:49 2013 -- reformated by v1.50 (build 22352)
CAMPAIGN:World of Warcraft (Revised)
KEY:35e - World of Warcraft
TYPE:Sword and Sorcery Studios.Campaign Setting.Warcraft
SETTING:World of Warcraft
SOURCELONG:World of Warcraft
COPYRIGHT:Blizzard, Sword & Sorcery
# COVER should be cover_gameMode_pub_book.file
# LOGO should be logo_pub.file

INFOTEXT:World of Warcraft Campaign Setting

# 6.6 Control Files

# Standard Files


HIDETYPE:SKILL|Strength|Dexterity|Constitution|Intelligence|Wisdom|Charisma|Standard|None|Base|Appraise|Balance|Bluff|Climb|Concentration|Craft (Alchemy)|Craft (Armorsmithing)|Craft (Basketweaving)|Craft (Bookbinding)|Craft (Bowmaking)|Craft (Blacksmithing)|Craft (Calligraphy)|Craft (Carpentry)|Craft (Cobbling)|Craft (Gemcutting)|Craft (Leatherworking)|Craft (Locksmithing)|Craft (Metalworking)|Craft (Painting)|Craft (Pottery)|Craft (Sculpting)|Craft (Shipmaking)|Craft (Stonemasonry)|Craft (Trapmaking)|Craft (Weaponsmithing)|Craft (Weaving)|Decipher Script|Diplomacy|Disable Device|Disguise|Escape Artist|Forgery|Gather Information|Handle Animal|Heal|Hide|Intimidate|Jump|Knowledge (Arcana)|Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)|Knowledge (Dungeoneering)|Knowledge (Geography)|Knowledge (History)|Knowledge (Local)|Knowledge (Nature)|Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)|Knowledge (Religion)|Knowledge (The Planes)|Knowledge (Untrained)|Listen|Move Silently|Open Lock|Perform (Act)|Perform (Comedy)|Perform (Dance)|Perform (Keyboard Instruments)|Perform (Oratory)|Perform (Percussion Instruments)|Perform (String Instruments)|Perform (Wind Instruments)|Perform (Sing)|Profession (Apothecary)|Profession (Boater)|Profession (Bookkeeper)|Profession (Brewer)|Profession (Cook)|Profession (Driver)|Profession (Farmer)|Profession (Fisher)|Profession (Guide)|Profession (Herbalist)|Profession (Herder)|Profession (Hunter)|Profession (Innkeeper)|Profession (Lumberjack)|Profession (Miller)|Profession (Miner)|Profession (Porter)|Profession (Rancher)|Profession (Sailor)|Profession (Scribe)|Profession (Siege Engineer)|Profession (Stablehand)|Profession (Tanner)|Profession (Teamster)|Profession (Woodcutter)|Ride|Search|Sense Motive|Sleight of Hand|Speak Language|Spellcraft|Spot|Survival|Swim|Tumble|Use Magic Device|Use Rope|Deception|Athletics|Persuasion|Language|Acrobatics|Perception|Stealth|Animal Empathy|Wilderness Lore|Intuit Direction|Innuedo|Literacy

INFOTEXT:Supports 6.4.1
# ENTRY DATE: 2015-10 (Unknown)
# LST MONKEY: Bahamut
# Built for PCGen Version: 6.04.01
# Updated to work with version: -
# MINVER:6.4
# MINDEVVER:6.04.1

The rest of the files are available from Bahamut's private github repository --

Check them out, see how another homebrewer did things, and then come back and ask specific questions if you get stuck. Tackling entire new core systems is a LOT of effort, and not something an inexperienced person should attempt.

Hope that helps,


Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:04 am
by Shardless
While I was editing my previous post I came back to find yours.

I understand what you are saying about the complexity of creating a new core system.

I will do as you are suggesting and start with the information that this user has created and move forward from there.

Thanks for all your help!

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:30 am
by LegacyKing

Just a rule of thumb, if the gamemode files don't need significant adjusting, them you should use the existing gamemode. Armor Class names/types, character sheet defaults, load scores, etc.

Also, the comment "Folder name is the unique key" is not quite true. The folder name should be unique, however, there is a KEY (GAMEMODEKEY:Blah) for gamemodes that overrides the GameMode folder name. I would call the GameMode "Warcraft" keep it simple and easy to remember. However, as stated no need to separate it out. It used the 35e rules, and should go under the publisher folder there.

If you need help with anything else, don't hesitate to ask.

Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:36 am
by LegacyKing
Also a few facts to aid you should you need the information in the future:

GAMEMODE:Blah in a PCC file needs to match one of the available options in the GameMode folder miscinfo.lst

Code: Select all

Displaying on the quick load "Basic" requires the PCC file to have:
Code: Select all

Finally, to have a gamemode be displayed the miscinfo.lst option must be set:
Code: Select all

Folder name helps, but miscinfo.lst is the file that requires the most editing to pull off a new gameMode.


Re: Need Help with Creating a Game setting in PCGen

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:57 am
by Shardless
I think that was the missing piece of my puzzle for sure. I never would have figured that out had you not told me. THough to clarify these three lines are necessary inside the miscinfo.lst within the new gamemode I am trying to make?
Thank you so much Andrew!